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Noah
Regular
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
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Does anyone know a topcoat or sealer that excels in preventing wood from darkening due to sun exposure? a floor that was sealed with Waterlox ( tung oil+) has tremedous variation between exposed wood and that under rugs. i've read here and there that shellac does this and also something called Street Shoe claims to. but that looks like plastic from what i can tell. what would be drawback of using exterior product that is designed for sun protection inside? And does anyone know how to take red and orange out of fir? Two-part wood bleach?
so my tentative plan is bleach, thinned de-waxed shellac, possible stain or dye, and then idk. more shellac as sealer and then topcoat? sorry for lack of pith. cheers.
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AsonnyA
Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 140
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Some of your discoloration is due to the natural darkening of the wood. You need to reduce the amount of light affecting the particular areas. One way to prevent this type of discoloration is to move furniture and rugs, periodically, to new locations, in order that all areas of the floor are equally exposed.
I have no faith in your tentative plan, as you outline it. If anything, test a spot this way: Tone some shellac, to a darker color, and apply on a relatively small spot. Creep up on getting the correct color match, by adding layers... don't try for a perfect match with a one time application. I would tone the shellac with a TransTint dye, if need be. If the testing tone is too dark, lighten it by adding denatured alcohol to the blend. If this shellac technique doesn't work, you can clean off the test material with denatured alcohol.
Once the color match is achieved, topcoat with Waterlox.
You could probably tone some Waterlox, also, and test/apply that, but I've never toned Waterlox. Sand between coats!
Sonny
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Bob Boardman
Refinish/Repair Wiz
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 833
Location: NJ
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If sun is darkening the wood, it's probably cherry. If not what type of wood is it? How long has the floor been in place?
I wouldn't use an exterior product indoors. Exterior products are designed to "flex" with thew temperature extremes received outdoors. When used indoors, ext products do not dry as "hard" as interior products, and are susceptible to indents and & imprints being left in the finish.
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Bob "Boardman" Borders
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Noah
Regular
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
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Sonny,
Thanks for your reply and while i do share your lack of optimism i think i did not convey my intention clearly. i am not trying to match one section to another. what i want to do is start over on bare wood and i'm looking for something to prevent this darkening from happening again.well, i should say what my mom wants me to do, what i want to do is carpet it. moving rugs around is not really practical for her.
Thank you to Bob. the wood is douglas fir. it was layed 5-6 yrs ago but it is reclaimed wood and i am not sure how old it is, is older wood more susceptible to sun? Cherry is an apt description of the color though. That is why we are thinking of using a two part bleach. she does not care for the reds and oranges. the hardness if the finish is not that big of an issue (i think) because it is a rustic distressed plank floor that is face nailed with cut nails. sun protection is the main concern.
thanks again
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Bob Boardman
Refinish/Repair Wiz
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 833
Location: NJ
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_________________
Bob "Boardman" Borders
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preeng2
Regular
Age: 55
Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 22
Location: E. Hanover, NJ
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Noah/Bob,
There was talk last year from Target about a new floor product called WB2000. It was supposed to be similar to the EM2000 but with anti-slip properties. I have not heard or seen any mention of that product since. Your best bet would be as Bob suggested, call Target and inquire about the 2000 FLOOR product.
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Noah
Regular
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
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Thanks again Bob. I'll give him a call monday. i'm thinking more and more that it just can't be helped and am thinking maybe just Waterloxing again because the owner really likes the look of it. maybe i'll put some shellac under the waterlox because the can of Zinsser at Home Depot said it is good sun protection. does that claim have anything to do with the wax in it because i've heard you can't put anything over shellac with wax. or could i just shellac it and skip the Waterlox? does shellac hold up on floors? and is there any dye/stain that takes the read out of fir?all oil stains seem to be a shade of brown and the dark ones ive tried cover the red in some parts of the grain but just bring out the red in the others so it looks like a tiger. i was thinking maybe a yellow dye but i don't want it to look like it does on the label, like yellow paint. i read an article that says 2 part bleach reduces contrast between grain and lightens natural wood color. do you agree, any experience?
sorry for all the questions, you've been vey accomadating and helpful.
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Zeeman
Moderator
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 634
Location: Newport R.I.
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Noah,
Reclaimed fir will show it's true colors with any finish, which is the beauty of old wood like that. It is hard to get around it. That is why the owner (your Mom) likes it originally. Sunlight and UV damage is inevitable with unfiltered sunlight and oil finishes like Waterlox.
To reduce the contrast, you would need to stain it dark, or mask it by bleaching and applying waterborne topcoats with a soft pickle stain added. Waterlox, or any oil finish will react with sunlight UV and cause color change.
Tim
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Noah
Regular
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
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THanks Zeeman,
can a waterborne topcoat be put over oil basecoats? and will the just defeat the purpose because the sun will still react with the oil beneath and the nice finish is covered by the water? kind of a worst of both worlds. do you know anything about the sun protection claimed on shellac cans?and would shellac have a similar appearance to tung or linseed? oh, and what is a pickle stain?
danka
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Bob Boardman
Refinish/Repair Wiz
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 833
Location: NJ
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Noah
I don't want to step on Zeeman's posts, but a few quick answers:
1) A waterborne can be applied over an oil as long as the oil has cured...not dried, cured. Typically that means more that 4 weeks, and depending on the product, can be 3 months (boiled linseed oil as an example). You should seal the oil base to be sure...shellac is a good choice.
2) If there's UV protection in the waterbase product, then no (or few) UV rays get to the oil base product, so there should be limited "ambering"
3) Can't really answer about similar appearance...best way to find out is test some. Shellac is easy to remove if you don't like it
4) The Zeeman can give a beeter definition than this, but "pickling" is adding some pigment (or paint) to a finish, or watering down a pigmented finish, so that you can see through the pigment and make out the wood grain.
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Bob "Boardman" Borders
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Stuart
Regular
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 34
Location: So. Cal.
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Back in the 80's, when pickling and white washing was the rage, here in California, we used to do a lot of wash stains. People with oak or maple woodwork or furniture, loved the bare look of the wood. But when any finish was applied, it turned amber, So we would mix up a dilute white stain, and apply it to the wood. When the finish went on, there was no ambering. It worked quite well, although I was around ten years later, I never heard a negative on the effects of time and sunlight. And maybe that was because the whitewash phase was over, and people were looking for richer colors.
Just some ramblings from an old finisher, Stuart
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AsonnyA
Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 140
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Rambling is good. Lots of my knowledge, when growing up, came from listening to the old timers' "ramblings".
Sonny
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Noah
Regular
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
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Thanks Bob and Stu. my mom came up with the idea of putting uv film on the patio door and windows. so with the sun protection not so much an issue i think we're gonna used Tried and True linseed varnish because it has zero VOCs. i'd like to keep the whole project as low in this manner as possible. so is Zinnser Sealcoat light on toxicity and do you have to thin it for use as washcoat and if so is denatured alcohol the only option and what is its VOC? i also have a little Dark Pure Tung oil from Real Milk Paint company kicking around and was wondering if it could work as a washcoat.
thanks
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Bob Boardman
Refinish/Repair Wiz
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 833
Location: NJ
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NOah
Independent of sunlight, any linseed oil based product will develop a slight ambert cast over time. Denatured alcohol is the same alcohol you drink, with some poison added to prevent you from drinking it (and avoiding the Federal Excise Tax). Because it evaporates so quickly, it's low in VOC's.
Waterbase products have the lowest VOC's
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_________________
Bob "Boardman" Borders
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Noah
Regular
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
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Bob,
Thanks so much for all your tips. Sorry for so many queries but i have no experience in finishing.
So one more question. You said that linseed oil will amber over time. I have read that it will yellow slightly more often than reading that it will amber. Are these terms used interchangeably and do you use them interchangeably? A little yellowing i think would be desired but i think of amber as subdued red which i don't want.
Ok, i lied about one more question. Is there anything that could be used to thin the Tried and True Danish oil to used as washcoat besides mineral spirits? Something easy on the respiratory system? Their Danish oil is pure linseed oil that has been heated to very high temps if you are not familiar. Iwa sthinking to use Citrus Solvent because that is what Real MIlk Paint Company sells to thin their tung oil. But then i noticed that Tried and True specifically mentions not even applying their product over something that has been thinned with citrus. I don't understand this becuase i thought it would have evaporated away and is only a means to get whatever it is thinning soaked deep into wood.
And they sell a another product that is a linseed oil varnish. I couldn't find varnish in the defintion of terms section of this (your?) site. It adds a little sheen to the linseed oil apparantely. Can it be thinned with pure linseed oil to reduce gloss? I'd ask them but their question thing doesnt work , at least for me.
Thank you, noah
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Zeeman
Moderator
Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 634
Location: Newport R.I.
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I'll repeat Bob's earlier comment. . . .I don't want to step on his posts or answer for him, but here I go,
The Zinnsser Sealcoat is a totally natural product and would be a great product to use as a washcoat. cut it in half with denatured alcohol and apply. The evaporating alcohol will indeed give off it's odor immediatly, but will be gone as soon as the product dries, which is about 15 minutes. After an hour, you can scuff it, vacuum it, and apply your T+T Linseed varnish.
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